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Ryan and 30 Helens
1w ago
I've wish Nostr had different metrics, something new for a new protocol. Followers is something borrowed from legacy social media. It makes it like a game to build that number higher.
How about stats that focus on interaction and building community?
Other npubs conversed with per week/month, or comment reprocity % - am I active in the community, actually conversing with people, or just posting notes and not interacting?
Number of mutual follows - am I just collecting follows? Or am I engaging with people and building connections?
Post vs comment ratio - am I just posting notes, or am I also getting involved with other people?
How about stats that focus on interaction and building community?
Other npubs conversed with per week/month, or comment reprocity % - am I active in the community, actually conversing with people, or just posting notes and not interacting?
Number of mutual follows - am I just collecting follows? Or am I engaging with people and building connections?
Post vs comment ratio - am I just posting notes, or am I also getting involved with other people?
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Eric FJ
@EricFJ
1w ago
Ooh I like mutual follows
I wanna see the grifter ratios: zaps in vs out (both frequency and quantity)
I wanna see the grifter ratios: zaps in vs out (both frequency and quantity)
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Ryan and 30 Helens
@Ryan and 30 Helens
1w ago
Amounts & number of zaps are available on nostr.build, primal & Nostrudel already. But is that a good metric?
Are people who create content supposed to zap it all back, or do they deserve the zaps they get?
Do zap4follow scammers benefit the community, as would be indicated by a high amount of zaps out?
Are people who zap anonymously scammers?
Plus it's trivial easy to make multiple npubs and zap back and forth to game the numbers.
Going by this measure alone I might be considered a grifter, with 1.5M sats received and 400k sent. I have also been here for 2 years, making original content, helping other users, and funding projects like nostr.build that aren't reflected in these stats.
Are people who create content supposed to zap it all back, or do they deserve the zaps they get?
Do zap4follow scammers benefit the community, as would be indicated by a high amount of zaps out?
Are people who zap anonymously scammers?
Plus it's trivial easy to make multiple npubs and zap back and forth to game the numbers.
Going by this measure alone I might be considered a grifter, with 1.5M sats received and 400k sent. I have also been here for 2 years, making original content, helping other users, and funding projects like nostr.build that aren't reflected in these stats.
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Soda Bottle
@Soda Bottle
1w ago
Zaps actually solve a problem. Because on Nostr and other twitter-like social media platforms, likes and following are not of much value since very easy to fake.
Accounts of recognized people following you are valuable. But those are scarse and most, even very relevant users, will never be followed my an account of real Musk or Trump - or whoever else's of less then 100 who average reader would recognize.
Long and Thouhtful replies are kind of representative of how relative one is, but those are still free of charge and most of replies are short, dumb and meaningless - easy enough to fake with bots.
The cool part about nostr's zaps, is that it is a monetary representation of how grateful people are for your post. Which means, in practice, that, unlike faking your follower count or amount of likes, zaps are actually
Accounts of recognized people following you are valuable. But those are scarse and most, even very relevant users, will never be followed my an account of real Musk or Trump - or whoever else's of less then 100 who average reader would recognize.
Long and Thouhtful replies are kind of representative of how relative one is, but those are still free of charge and most of replies are short, dumb and meaningless - easy enough to fake with bots.
The cool part about nostr's zaps, is that it is a monetary representation of how grateful people are for your post. Which means, in practice, that, unlike faking your follower count or amount of likes, zaps are actually
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Eric FJ
@EricFJ
1w ago
Yeah definitely none of these measures should be used in isolation
It’s helpful in context with other metrics.
Yes creators deserve to keep their share.
It’s helpful in context with other metrics.
Yes creators deserve to keep their share.
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Sophia
@sophiaw1926
1w ago
👋
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Owen
@Owen
1w ago
Definitely valid points. I've complained many times about the people who just post and bail , even when there are thoughtful responses...
That said, it would all be based on the type of npub. Like, I follow some npubs that are like apps, podcasts, or other content like news etc. In those cases, I wouldn't want to discriminate against ratios because I don't expect interaction back.
I guess it becomes a UX problem at that point, and would depend how the client categorises different types of npubs/shows the appropriate metrics so people can determine quality follows based on the content type.
That said, it would all be based on the type of npub. Like, I follow some npubs that are like apps, podcasts, or other content like news etc. In those cases, I wouldn't want to discriminate against ratios because I don't expect interaction back.
I guess it becomes a UX problem at that point, and would depend how the client categorises different types of npubs/shows the appropriate metrics so people can determine quality follows based on the content type.
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Danny
@Danny
1w ago
Focus on real connections, not just numbers. 👍
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Ryan and 30 Helens
@Ryan and 30 Helens
1w ago
That's the point. I think I understand that fully 🤙
Ryan and 30 Helens
•
3w ago
An important thing I've come to learn about Nostr:
The advice to build up a huge follow list is wrong. Cultivating a list of people with good viewpoints and honest intentions is a much more valuable.
Follow people you interact with regularly who reciprocate your interactions with them. Follow for follow leaves you with a feed of low quality content, and a questionable list of follows riddled with possible bots and scammers.
It is true that this is more difficult initially than platform based algorithm driven social media, but leaves you with a much more rewarding experience.
The key to Nostr is honest human interaction, not legacy social media growth hacks to grow follower counts.
#nostr #grownostr
The advice to build up a huge follow list is wrong. Cultivating a list of people with good viewpoints and honest intentions is a much more valuable.
Follow people you interact with regularly who reciprocate your interactions with them. Follow for follow leaves you with a feed of low quality content, and a questionable list of follows riddled with possible bots and scammers.
It is true that this is more difficult initially than platform based algorithm driven social media, but leaves you with a much more rewarding experience.
The key to Nostr is honest human interaction, not legacy social media growth hacks to grow follower counts.
#nostr #grownostr
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₿oniz23⚡️🏴☠️🇮🇹
@Boniz23sats
1w ago
Hi ryan 🤟😉🏴☠️ Absolutely. Followers are a shallow metric that doesn’t reflect true engagement or community-building. The metrics you’re suggesting would bring real value, focusing on quality over quantity. It’s not about collecting followers, it’s about creating meaningful interactions and fostering connections. Community isn’t built on passive consumption it’s built on dialogue and mutual engagement. The post-to-comment ratio is a perfect example it’s not just about broadcasting, it’s about participating. These new metrics could redefine what success looks like on Nostr, and move away from the vanity of legacy social media. Let’s prioritize depth over numbers.
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Square cuts
@squarecuts
1w ago
Nice, very nice
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Tony Acid
@tonyaac
1w ago
valuerank=sum(zaps)*#harts*#comments*#follows*#reshares
all with adjustable weights by individual nostr users to their liking
all with adjustable weights by individual nostr users to their liking
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Mercurius
@Mercurius
1w ago
Is SourceCred available for Nostr??
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Ryan and 30 Helens
@Ryan and 30 Helens
1w ago
Mercurius
@Mercurius
1w ago
Yes does it make sense to apply this to Nostr ?
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Mercurius
@Mercurius
1w ago
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gandlaf21
@gandlaf21
1w ago
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Ryan and 30 Helens
@Ryan and 30 Helens
1w ago
If legacy social media gamified the worst parts of human nature to maximize screen time and seek ads, why can't Nostr do the same with the best parts and encourage community, communication, and connection?
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richard
@richard
1w ago
exactly i was thinking abt that too. legacy social media features are designed terribly. the UX is not doing users a favor. likes, follower counts, etc all unhealthy social metrics.
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Jerzy
@jerzy
1w ago
This is an excellent idea!
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royster⚡️🌲🌽🗽
@royster
1w ago
How about zap to like ratio
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Ryan and 30 Helens
@Ryan and 30 Helens
1w ago
I'm not sure what that ratio would show me. What do you think this reaction would indicate, and how would it be useful?
I don't subscribe to the onlyzaps meme. I use a client that has reactions, and I find them a useful communication sub-channel. They let me gauge reaction to a note or comment. On most social media a large percentage of people don't post much, be it notes or comments, and reactions are a frictionless way for them to express sentiment. I also didn't think every comment I make is worth money, but would like to know what people think.
I don't subscribe to the onlyzaps meme. I use a client that has reactions, and I find them a useful communication sub-channel. They let me gauge reaction to a note or comment. On most social media a large percentage of people don't post much, be it notes or comments, and reactions are a frictionless way for them to express sentiment. I also didn't think every comment I make is worth money, but would like to know what people think.
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royster⚡️🌲🌽🗽
@royster
1w ago
Why like when you could 1 sat zap? Likes just remind me too much of Facebook and twitter. Beta fiat coded. If you’re here now you should be embracing V4V. We are the ones who must manifest a new world
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BujuX
@BujuX
1w ago
Ryan and 30 Helens
@Ryan and 30 Helens
1w ago
Like I said, my client doesn't have likes, it has reactions, which can infinitely personalized, and used to transmit information. I don't think every human interaction needs to be monitized by zaps. I don't flip a nickel at my IRL friends for every comment.
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David
@David
1w ago
The monetization some times just makes me feel weird. I’m mostly interested in just shooting the shit and sharing interests.
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02 more reply(ies)
royster⚡️🌲🌽🗽
@royster
1w ago
Yea it’s an aesthetic preference I suppose. Exchanging a token of scarcity as a positive response to an online interaction makes it feel more real, more meaningful. No need for that IRL but in cyberspace seems like a useful anchor
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D4DISTRICT
@D4DISTRICT
1w ago
Zap count lol, it's all borrowed to a certain degree, but total zaps would be interesting.
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Ryan and 30 Helens
@Ryan and 30 Helens
1w ago
Zaps are amazing for easily transferring value, but I'm not sure what they are a good signal for.
People looking to achieve high follower counts with little effort can do zap4follow scams, basically buying followers, and giving them a large amount zapped. Anyone can make multiple npubs and round robin zaps to up their numbers. It's easy to game the system.
What could one learn from this information? How could this stat be used to indicate community involvement?
People looking to achieve high follower counts with little effort can do zap4follow scams, basically buying followers, and giving them a large amount zapped. Anyone can make multiple npubs and round robin zaps to up their numbers. It's easy to game the system.
What could one learn from this information? How could this stat be used to indicate community involvement?
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D4DISTRICT
@D4DISTRICT
1w ago
I mean one could argue that zaps are the entirety of the community involvement, I don't like to argue though. I guess just thought it would be cool! What's the point fo follows, replies, and everything else that makes this a social platform(protocol) it's all borrowed and inspired from something. Maybe Node runners could get special banners to show their dedication to the community 😎
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Ryan and 30 Helens
@Ryan and 30 Helens
1w ago
I didn't want to argue either, just wondering your viewpoint about how amount of zaps could inspire community involvement, how they could be a new signal for that. My inspiration for this note is to gamify people finding into finding & building community & connections, rather than building a big follower count 👍
I think it is already well used, with bots dedicated to showing big zaps, sites that show zap totals & amounts like nostr.build & zaplife.lol and zaps being shown on notes and comments. If you have new ideas it would be great to share them though!
I think it is already well used, with bots dedicated to showing big zaps, sites that show zap totals & amounts like nostr.build & zaplife.lol and zaps being shown on notes and comments. If you have new ideas it would be great to share them though!
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D4DISTRICT
@D4DISTRICT
1w ago
See Nostr is so crazy I probably don't know 99.99% of the things it's already capable like you just mentioned that sites already do this, it does so much already it's really neat 😎
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MAKE SONGS LONGER
@heatherlarson
1w ago
nicnym
@nicnym
1w ago
What about cozy level
Start paying attention to metrics that matter.
Start paying attention to metrics that matter.
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Ryan and 30 Helens
@Ryan and 30 Helens
1w ago
Hmm. I like it.
How do you calculate cozy level?
How do you calculate cozy level?
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nicnym
@nicnym
1w ago
Check what the arcane scrolls in the vaults of minas tirith say how else
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Ryan and 30 Helens
@Ryan and 30 Helens
1w ago
I tried but some dude kept telling me I couldn't pass.
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Chef Tommy
@ChefTommy
1w ago
This!
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Sean (The allographic Nostrian)
@Sean (The allographic Nostrian)
1w ago
I agree!
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eliza
@elizableu
1w ago
Good points.
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