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Kevin Ravens₿erg ⚡️ ☁️
2mo ago
You are using ln.coinos.io 021294fff596e497ad2902cd5f19673e9020953d90625d68c22e91b51a45c032d3
to receive zaps ⚡
to receive zaps ⚡
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npub1yxp7j
@npub1yxp7j
2mo ago
I want to congratulate @Kevin Ravens₿erg ⚡️ ☁️ for finding an LN transaction and posting it
Let's see info he learned:
- sender? Himself -- assuming he sent from a self-custodial wallet, he even knows the address or channel of the sender, wow!
- recipient? He knows the recipient's communication pubkey, node, and node name -- though not learn the address or channel that received the money
- Amount? 69 sats
- Fee? less than 1 sat
That's a lot of info! More than I'd get from analyzing a monero transaction.
Reading this back, it sounds sarcastic; it's not, I am being genuine: this really is more info than I'd get from analyzing a monero transaction, and it motivates me to work on making LN better. Thanks Kevin!
Let's see info he learned:
- sender? Himself -- assuming he sent from a self-custodial wallet, he even knows the address or channel of the sender, wow!
- recipient? He knows the recipient's communication pubkey, node, and node name -- though not learn the address or channel that received the money
- Amount? 69 sats
- Fee? less than 1 sat
That's a lot of info! More than I'd get from analyzing a monero transaction.
Reading this back, it sounds sarcastic; it's not, I am being genuine: this really is more info than I'd get from analyzing a monero transaction, and it motivates me to work on making LN better. Thanks Kevin!
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npub1yxp7j
@npub1yxp7j
2mo ago
npub1yxp7j
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2mo ago
Replying to @USER
After thinking about it, the sender of a monero actually *would* know that information, except the node identifiers. A monero transaction knows which pubkey is the "real" spender -- their own pubkey is the real spender -- and they know the recipient's address, because the spender derived it from the recipient's public key. They also know what amount they sent and what fee they paid. So the only "extra" information he got from the LN transaction was info about the recipient's node's name and ip address. And if I had used my own node (which has no public channels) he wouldn't have even gotten *that* info. The privacy on LN really is very good if you don't use a custodian.
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npub1m6azw
@npub1m6azw
2mo ago
When you are sending the sats, then you have all the details, we knew that, right?
It's the same when I'm sending from Phoenix: I see the hops the payment went through, I see the target pubkey, preimage, amounts, fees.
I see my immediate channel to Phoenix ASP (and obviously my wallet descriptors, founding transaction, etc) and online I can find public channels from ACINQ to other nodes (ACINQ has a lot of those). You can put the hop id (node id) into mempool space and it shows the node details and channels.
The question is if you can catch some other transaction that you are not participating in. For that you would need to capture the packets going over the network with wireshark or log the info as a routing node.
Using blinded paths or Bolt12 should help (from what smart people say).
It's the same when I'm sending from Phoenix: I see the hops the payment went through, I see the target pubkey, preimage, amounts, fees.
I see my immediate channel to Phoenix ASP (and obviously my wallet descriptors, founding transaction, etc) and online I can find public channels from ACINQ to other nodes (ACINQ has a lot of those). You can put the hop id (node id) into mempool space and it shows the node details and channels.
The question is if you can catch some other transaction that you are not participating in. For that you would need to capture the packets going over the network with wireshark or log the info as a routing node.
Using blinded paths or Bolt12 should help (from what smart people say).
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Kevin Ravens₿erg ⚡️ ☁️
@Kevin Ravens₿erg
2mo ago
If you were using blinded paths I would not be able to tell the final recipient, so LN can already be more private for receivers 🕶️
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npub14cgq3
@npub14cgq3
2mo ago
How does Bolt12 fit into all this
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npub1jqs0u
@npub1jqs0u
2mo ago
Also nice you throw in the solution 😂
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Kevin Ravens₿erg ⚡️ ☁️
@Kevin Ravens₿erg
2mo ago
Only a little reckless
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